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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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IS THERE REALLY....
...ever a TRULY excusable reason for infidelity.
Lets try not to be politically correct with this one.We should really give this thought before replying.
...I believe,if answered honestly,we will discover much about ourselves and the significance we really place on devoted committment to one person as a mate or life-partner..
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 19, 2004, 08:13 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Never, for any reason. Its one of the most hurtful things in the world to do to a person. Not to mention they carry that pain with them for the rest of they're lives.
I believe that if you do, your either looking for an easy way out of the relationship or don't want to go through the hassel of talking out your problems.
But thats just my opinion.
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| October 19, 2004, 09:27 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
It is human to make mistakes, both in small matters and in matters of life and love. I believe that this a prima facie reason for infidelity. The realization that a mistake was made, and rather than divorcing, breaking up or terminating the legal union one partner tries to secretly correct the "mistake". So Human Nature/natural failings are one "excusable" reason.
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| October 19, 2004, 09:41 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Although it is human to err or make a mistake, for the other human to forgive that person is almost Christ like, and even though over a long period of time they may forgive, the love torn scar on their heart may still linger on. When it comes to deep true love I don't think (for catholics) Confession even works on this one.
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| October 19, 2004, 10:13 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I would not presume to say that being excusable makes an act right. Confession is an act of repentance and contrition, not an "undo." Once opened, Pandora is loose and though the box may be retied, it may well be empty.
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| October 19, 2004, 10:28 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Honestly..I belive your upbringing or beliefs play a big part in determining if there is a excusable reason or not.
For the record I'm Agnostic and in my opinon primal and animalistic urges are not wrong, and should not effect your love for a person.
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| October 19, 2004, 10:40 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Agnostic means you believe there is no proof of god, but you won't deny that there may be a god. So therefore if someone told you they were sorry you may or may not believe them. And if a close friend told another close friend to tell you they were sorry, you would not believe either one of them because there would be no proof only their word.If so that just means you probably have no faith in anyone.
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| October 19, 2004, 14:04 |
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judaskiss79
42 / male
Northern, Virginia, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
hey... eatin' ain't cheatin!!!
This has been another message from "Judas' Two Cents."
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| October 19, 2004, 14:34 |
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hardrock1955
69 / male
McGaheysville, Virginia, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I beleive it would be utterly impossible to cheat on true love for any reason.I have never in my life cheated on anyone and never will.I guess if you are in a marriage where true love has been lost , it's possible to cheat,but I feel you should end the marriage or relationship , Before you see someone else , be it for " just sex " or dating or whatever. just my opinion, and the way I see to live my own life.if others see fit to cheat , I hold nothing against them for doing it.
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| October 19, 2004, 15:58 |
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judaskiss79
42 / male
Northern, Virginia, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
On serious note, which is a rarity for me. I don't know where I stand on this. I have to agree a little bit with hardrock. And also with K. If you love someone you shouldn't be able to cheat. But... we are human and make mistakes.
For example. I love my fiance deeply. There have been times when we almost ended it, but I couldn't bear the thought of it. However, unfortunately, she's not driven sexually as much as I am. Seriously, if the the sex life declines after marriage I'd really hate to see what happens to us once we're married. This issue is something that we have tried to work through. And, i know it sounds harsh of me to talk about this, cruel even. But, There are times when I have thought about getting my kicks off elsewhere. I mean, look...i joined this site!!! And honestly, I don't know if I ever would cheat on her or not. I jsut don't know. But, there are times when one gets literally depressed because they haven't gotten any for some reason. Especially from the one they love. And no... that doesn't justify infidelity... but at the same time, it does. I dunno... i guess your view on the matter really depends what type of situation you're in. My girlfriend is going away to Belgium for two weeks in Nov. And I'm contemplating seeing an escort. Just for the experience and it tears me up inside just thinking it because I find so many reasons to do it and so many reasons not to. So, to counter hardrock, I do believe one can cheat on someone they truly love.
To answer a question I know will pop up... No... i have not cheated on her in the 5 years we've been together. I have had oppurtunities. I guess I come here and flirt with you all to kind of subside any thoughts of infidelity. I dunno. I kinda see it as an on-the-spot call.
Damn, I hate being a libra and seeing both sides of a situation.
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| October 19, 2004, 16:27 |
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Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (hothands @ October 19, 2004, 14:04)Agnostic means you believe there is no proof of god, but you won't deny that there may be a god. So therefore if someone told you they were sorry you may or may not believe them. And if a close friend told another close friend to tell you they were sorry, you would not believe either one of them because there would be no proof only their word.If so that just means you probably have no faith in anyone.
Wow, thats pretty off topic. Since you went out of your way to prejudge me, I was going to give you a nice, well thought out, in depth response.
But I'll just leave it at this, you can speculate and pre judge all you want, but the fact of the matter is you don't know me. As far as not having faith in anyone goes. I did 10 years in the Marine Corps and my brother Marines and me were put in harms way on several occasion. The thing that helped me get by, is the fact that you have faith in the Marine on your right and left, knowing that we all looked out for one another. Having faith in someone was a way of life, so you can get off your high horse now.
I'll leave it at that, end of disscusion.
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| October 19, 2004, 16:44 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
judas... i feel a lot the same way. a few here have discussed this with me already and know i am split on this issue. here goes an attempt....
i feel you most definetely can cheat on someone you love more than life itself. everyone gets depressed, drunk, has a fight, etc, etc... in these weak times even the strongest willed person may break under the stress... especially if its a repeated situation. does it make it ok... not a chance. i've tried with out success to explain on how if a partner cheats on me it would hurt but not end anything.... and yes thats from experience, guess its just who i am. forgive but never forget. Lets just say even though i've been faithful and plan to stay that way in the future i can not say i will never cheat... so how can i be so totally devestated and crushed that someone else does it to completely deny them any chance to regain my trust? i put loyalty WAY above faithfullness as desired qualities.
this is assuming those one night stands type cheating... if you're "in love" or involved in another long term relationship outside ours then thats a whole new can of worms.
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| October 19, 2004, 17:30 |
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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
..this is beyond insightful and compelling.Please continue to add your comments..
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 19, 2004, 17:48 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I still just don't think you can cheat on someone that you truly love. If you really love someone for who they are and what they are then your willing to change and grow and maybe stick out some dry spells and situations that your not happy to be in. My husband works. ALOT! He has been a little ill w/ something that won't go away.(Not to serious so nothing life threatning) My sex life is not what is was 5 yrs ago. Do I find other men attractive? Sure? Has the thought of finding a little on the side passed my mind? You bettcha. But I could never do it. Cheating is distructive. It hurts like hell and wreaks lives of single people and families.
If your unhappy enough to cheat, just call it off. Its respectful of the other person.
Now I won't add any more cause I'm sure I've bored you all enough. 
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| October 19, 2004, 19:08 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I totally agree with you CG 
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| October 19, 2004, 19:10 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Cheating doesn't even cross my mind when I've made a full commitment to someone, I see the rest of the world as platonic, and then there's the one I love. I've seen relationships, marraiges, that were held together by allot of things, none of which were love, maybe it was there once...
Sometimes the relationship is long dead and gone before there is an actual physical separation, and there are allot of reasons for this. I could never really judge someone I knew to be "cheating", I don't know their circumstances and I try to avoid "judging".
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| October 19, 2004, 20:31 |
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Re: Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (Creeper76 @ October 19, 2004, 16:44) QUOTE (hothands @ October 19, 2004, 14:04)Agnostic means you believe there is no proof of god, but you won't deny that there may be a god. So therefore if someone told you they were sorry you may or may not believe them. And if a close friend told another close friend to tell you they were sorry, you would not believe either one of them because there would be no proof only their word.If so that just means you probably have no faith in anyone.
Wow, thats pretty off topic. Since you went out of your way to prejudge me, I was going to give you a nice, well thought out, in depth response.
But I'll just leave it at this, you can speculate and pre judge all you want, but the fact of the matter is you don't know me. As far as not having faith in anyone goes. I did 10 years in the Marine Corps and my brother Marines and me were put in harms way on several occasion. The thing that helped me get by, is the fact that you have faith in the Marine on your right and left, knowing that we all looked out for one another. Having faith in someone was a way of life, so you can get off your high horse now.
I'll leave it at that, end of disscusion.
Am not on a high horse at all, and I am not prejudging you personaly only the words you use. I cannot understand your meaning of Agnostic and animalistic urges, or how that fits into being unfaithful to someone you love? I hope I'm not dealing with a thin skined Marine here? I was never that good at male bonding, and an not trying upset you.
Ten years in the core, thats an honerable accomplishment! Ten more and you could get a nice pension. Good luck creeper 
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| October 19, 2004, 21:14 |
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Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (artful1 @ October 19, 2004, 17:48)..this is beyond insightful and compelling.Please continue to add your comments..
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
I want more of your thoughts here, and I'm curious about your viewpoint, Artful, I believe there are one or two threads you started that talk about your encounters with women who were married or had boyfriends. How do you honeslty view these women that are cheating with you? Does it affect they way you behave towards them? I hope you don't mind the question, I am truly curious to know the single man 's POV.
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| October 19, 2004, 21:42 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Hothands....
LOL...No, I'm not a thin skined Marine.You could call me every name in the book and it would roll off my back. I guess that I just took the whole "you"and "not having faith in people thing" out of context and took it as a personal attack.OOPPS, Sorry about the misunderstanding and I hope there are no hard feelings.Like I said it's a dead issue.
BTW..its Corps, not corp..sorry pet peeve
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| October 19, 2004, 23:25 |
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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I personally feel that we do that which we want to do.Reasons for do so,I understand.Ecusing the actions..no.You can forgive without excusing.This is why I asked everyone to think before answering this question.The women i have been with who were in possession of a boyfriend or husband;all were in agreement with the scenario(Never had sex with a married woman ,however,knowing that was the case).or the women casually "ommitted"that peice of insight.
I believe such women to be deceptive and dis-loyal.
Duress and pressure are not reasons for dis-honesty on this level.Creeper spent ten years in service and in harms way.Duress and pressure probably brought out his true strength of character and conviction,so it is with people.Duress and pressure
do not simply make you do crazy things,they are the tools that forge out your true character and nature....we do that which we choose to do..
I am a single male who likes to keep it real at all times...especially with women.I am in a state of
constant awe of the female form,aura,depth.I desire
the companionship of good women always.But I am also no dilitante as it regards the emotional make-up of same.Men do the same things as well,
this is understood,but their actions are never "
reasoned"with in the same manner that we bend over backwards to "reason" out the emotional state of women and their subsequent behaviours.This is a level playing feild...we do that which we choose to do...no excuses...
We can forgive without excusing.Think about this.
...Men and Women must do better by one another...
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 20, 2004, 06:52 |
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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
...please forgive the errors in spelling...I did not proof-read...lol
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 20, 2004, 06:55 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
It is human to fail. It is also possible to learn from past failures and to change future behavior.
Even the military recognizes that duress is a valid excuse for uncharacteristic behaviors. It is when those uncharacteristic behaviors become the norm for an individual that duress, stress and excuses are no longer acceptable.
You can screw around once and I may forgive you, twice and I will forget you.
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| October 20, 2004, 07:07 |
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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
KB,
Thanks for the input.The military does recognize the
pressures and duress that soldiers come under.However,have you ever witnessed how such human
frailties are rewarded in the military.It is not what your posting would suggest.Such negatively percieved
attributes are dealt with,for the most part,in not too Christ-like a way.Review this for yourself.I have some case histories that might aid you.We could ask Creeper,having been up close and personal with the military complex and internal structure.
"Too err is human,to forgive...divine". I get it and agree with it,but this is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 20, 2004, 07:17 |
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artful1
57 / male
Manhattan, New York, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
KB,
Thanks for the input.The military does recognize the
pressures and duress that soldiers come under.However,have you ever witnessed how such human
frailties are rewarded in the military.It is not what your posting would suggest.Such negatively percieved
attributes are dealt with,for the most part,in not too Christ-like a way.Review this for yourself.I have some case histories that might aid you.We could ask Creeper,having been up close and personal with the military complex and internal structure.
"Too err is human,to forgive...divine". I get it and agree with it,but this is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Peace and Blessings,
Artful1
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| October 20, 2004, 07:18 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I speak only for myself and of my own experiences. I try not to make generalizations to cover everyone.
I could possibly forgive one indiscretion. That is not a "get out of jail free," it is a reprieve or a stay of execution. A second indiscretion would be far too much to take and divine or not, no second forgiveness will be forthcoming. God alone can judge me for that (he won't be around to do so.)
I do largely as I please in this life. If I step on your foot once, I will apologize for the action, but not for my nature, never that.
Like me or not. that is who I am.
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| October 20, 2004, 07:33 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
The only thing I was trying to say in my original post it that I could forgive someone for infidelity, thats it. Nothing else. Me personally.I have not cheated on any woman ever that I'm in a monogomus realtionship with, but I have also been in and currently am in a open realtionship. So it's exactly that. Maybe that why I'm so tolerant.
For the record the military does not tolerate infidelity. If your get caught you get your pee-pee slammed in the door, your carrer is over, and you could face jail time.
Now to quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along"
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| October 20, 2004, 16:07 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (Creeper76 @ October 20, 2004, 16:07)
Now to quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along"
Depends on how nice you plan on being   
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| October 20, 2004, 16:37 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
This is How Artful1 and I get along. We live in a state of Mutual loving hostility (with sexual overtones.) Even though we may seem to be mortal enemies, Artful is secretly hoping that I will let him move into my house on November 4th and screw me silly every day until december 2nd. And since I am unattached, it wouldn't be "cheating" would it?
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| October 21, 2004, 17:11 |
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Re: Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (Tease @ October 20, 2004, 16:37) QUOTE (Creeper76 @ October 20, 2004, 16:07)
Now to quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along"
Depends on how nice you plan on being
Or we could be mean and wrestle it all out in some jello.
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| October 21, 2004, 20:10 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: Re: Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (curiousgirl @ October 21, 2004, 20:10) QUOTE (Tease @ October 20, 2004, 16:37) QUOTE (Creeper76 @ October 20, 2004, 16:07)
Now to quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along"
Depends on how nice you plan on being
Or we could be mean and wrestle it all out in some jello.
Im game!
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| October 21, 2004, 20:57 |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (curiousgirl @ October 21, 2004, 20:10) QUOTE (Tease @ October 20, 2004, 16:37) QUOTE (Creeper76 @ October 20, 2004, 16:07)
Now to quote Rodney King "Can't we all just get along"
Depends on how nice you plan on being
Or we could be mean and wrestle it all out in some jello.
Nah... choclate pudding,could be more fun.
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| October 22, 2004, 11:43 |
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backfromaustintx
66 / male
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
(artful1 @ October 19, 2004, 08:13)]...ever a TRULY excusable reason for infidelity.
Keeping my eye on the actual question asked, I would have to say YES. There are many situations where having sex with someone outside your marriage is not only permissable, but also beneficial.
As a male I don't think infidelity is inherently wrong. The only reason I would never, ever do it is because I know that it would hurt my partner. And if I lover her, or even consider myself a good person, I would never do that, no matter what.
BUT what if it didn't hurt her, and in fact she benifited from her husband's infidelity? Like, if she is physically disabled but loves him enough to allow him that experience, so long as it doesn't become emotional? Or, if she is no longer interested - she may know that he cheats but ignores it because she doesn't want to be 'bothered' anymore? How about couples that swing and/or swap partners, or bring additional people into the family bed? Would they say that infidelity is inherently wrong?
Now, I am going to piss someone off - for that I appologize in advance... I believe that most women are threatened by infidelity because sex is the one thing woman can use to control their mate. She feels that if he can go elsewhere then she has lost her one and only barganing chip!
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| October 22, 2004, 15:34 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I figure if you are taken care of at home you wont seek it else where..And if you still seek it because you dont get it enough then you need to just leave the relationship...Understanding BFA...If your partner is ill and says please..go out and take care of yourself..Being in the situation I am in now..If I was with someone and got sicker then I am..And couldnt have sex . Then I would let him go out and get it. With catches! Of course. 
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| October 22, 2004, 15:47 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I don't think your post was offensive but I don't use sex to control my husband. My sex drive is a little higher than his so if anything he uses it get what he wants out of me. I'm against cheating because its sneaky and disrespectful. If you have a problem you should talk about it.
I also don't feel that swinging is cheating. If your other half is ok with it than everybody is good. No sneaking, lying, or anything else like that.
I don't think you should cheat if your other is ill and its behind they're back. If they are that ill than why couldn't you take the time out of you life to be there when they need you the most. Once they're gone they're gone for good and you can't apologize or take it back.
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| October 22, 2004, 19:48 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I wish there were a line I could draw down the center of a piece of paper that made two columns,
Label one RIGHT,and the other one WRONG, or one BLACK, and the other WHITE. If every member of the
Donner Party approached the topic of cannibalism" before attempting to pass through those mountains, every one of them would have said the very same thing you would say, "I would NEVER do that"....."I could Never do that"...." I would rather starve to death!" You don't know that you wouldn't ever do what you harshly judge another for doing. You are just as capable of the same act.
"Nothing human,is alien to me" Oscar Wilde
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| October 22, 2004, 21:10 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
I dont think cheating is ok..But in the same sentence I will say I have done it before...Once..He (ex fiance) Found out the hard way..Was with his younger brother.. I can think of many excuses..But there is none...Honestly We were watching tv..Having fun teasing eachother..One thing did lead to another and he kissed me..I kissed back..And we ended up getting it on right there on the floor..Not once did I think about my fiance..The only thing that was going through my mind was how much fun I was having. My fiance didnt come to my mind till we were done..And then I thought about how wrong I was and what I had done to our already terrible relationship..
I believe that cheating is very wrong and unforgivable..and all those other things..But EVERYONE makes mistakes..But to cheat repeatedly thats not a mistake..Thats a POS!
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| October 22, 2004, 21:17 |
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Re: IS THERE REALLY....
Awwww...your a very naughty girl .....you just wanted spankings didn't you. 
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| October 23, 2004, 05:30 |
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backfromaustintx
66 / male
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
My sex drive is a little higher than his so if anything he uses it get what he wants out of me.
LOL! Well, there you go! Thats what happens when I use sweeping generalizations! There's always at least one exception. 
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| October 23, 2004, 08:50 |
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Tease
47 / female
small town, Minnesota, US
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Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (curiousgirl @ October 23, 2004, 05:30)Awwww...your a very naughty girl .....you just wanted spankings didn't you.
I only want them if your giving them!
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| October 23, 2004, 20:20 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Re: Re: IS THERE REALLY....
QUOTE (backfromaustintx @ October 23, 2004, 08:50)My sex drive is a little higher than his so if anything he uses it get what he wants out of me. LOL! Well, there you go! Thats what happens when I use sweeping generalizations! There's always at least one exception.
From what I've heard from allot of my female freinds, it's surpisingly more common of a complaint than you think.
I 've told my husband, "I don't care if you fuck around, provided you can even still walk after you gimme all the dick I need first!"
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| October 24, 2004, 05:20 |
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