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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
When Steve Jobs died Kam had said he was surprised I liked him as much as I did knowing how I feel about people that don't take care of their responsibilities.He was referring to the fact that Steve Jobs was said to have not supported his first child. There was a question as to the paternity of the child. I honestly didn't even know if it was ever resolved.It turns out it was at about her 7th birthday and they went on to have a good relationship. I can't hold it against him because I don't know the whole story. For example did the women that had the child sleep with others around the same time. Were paternity tests done back then and if so why wasn't it done for so long?
Back to the point. There are many really bad people threw time that still were quit smart and talented. I remember having a heated discussion with someone because I said Hitler was a total prick and lunatic but you can't take away that he was also most likely a genius. (I'm Jewish, so you can imagine how that went over.)Most lunatics that have reached that level of power are not stupid.Binladin was as crazy as they came but he wasn't stupid. He was highly educated with a ridiculous amount of money at his disposal and a twisted mind.He managed to convince a lot of people he was also some type of walking god and that they should follow his every move and do his every wish.I could name a lot of these guys threw time.Anyone remember Jonestown?
I always remember the expression that there is a thin line between genius and insanity. I can apply this to many people in the world.
I personally can't stand Mel Gibson. However I can't take away that he has talent. I just made a choice not to spend any money on anything he is connected to because of how I feel about him. Michael Jackson was another example of someone I felt the same way about. He might have been a genius when it came to what he did as a career but I didn't like the person.
I think human nature makes us want to believe that all bad people are stupid, ugly, broke, no talent morons that walk the earth and we could spot them a mile away. (I call this the boogieman way of thinking.All bad guys will look like the boogieman.)
In reality most of the "bad guys" look like everyone or anyone else and in most cases are quit intelligent and many cases even geniuses. Most are also well educated and in many cases quit well off. Some are even extremely good looking and had perfectly normal upbringings.It wood be really helpful however if they had a sign of some type saying "STAY AWAY".Charles Manson had women all over him. He still gets marriage proposals in jail. (I know, I don't get those women either.)The guy who killed the young lady during sex in Central park years ago was very good looking, very wealthy and reported to be quit intelligent. He also happened to be a raving lunatic who killed a girl to get off.
OK those people might be extremes but there are plenty of bad people out there that are smart and talented. What is you feeling about them. Can you appreciate and/or admire their talent or intelligence yet still dislike the person? Will or do you spend money to see one of them in their profession even knowing they are total pricks in life in general?
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| October 8, 2011, 19:39 |
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perveman
111 / male
Tucson, Arizona, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Forgive me for speaking ill of the dead. Michael Jackson. The strong "allegations", of his extra caricular activity, I tend to believe. But the man could dance as if he was super-haman, just had that little extra something. His musical talent, all around, on top of that, put's him in my genious catagory. 
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| October 8, 2011, 19:58 |
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Iwant2kssuallovr
62 / female
Bendover, Florida, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I was telling Free about this the other day. This is my opinon, there are those who are talented, and maybe really great people/actor/singer, but I really don't want to see them.
I haven't banned Mel Gibson. I watched The Patriot twice last week. Lethal Weapon, good, and Braveheart, I've seen many times.
Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt (I did like him in Thelma & Louise, The River Runs Through It, Legion of the Falls, Vampire Chronicles, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button/really good) but, a couple it took me years to watch cuz I didn't want to see him. Jennifer Aniston is getting on my nerves, Jennifer Lopez, TOO!
George Clooney, not so much, Or, Kevin Costner, except Silverado, Field of Dreams, and Dancing w/Wolves. Richard Gere, John Travolta, nah! Although, I have more respect for John when I saw an interview and he described how funny and theatrical his parents acted daily. Cindy Crawford, barf! Jessica Simpson... what is she all about??!! I thought she was a talented singer, though I don't always like her vocal style. And, she looks like a real dumbass when she tries to act. Beyonce, talented!!! Annoying!
I can't think of anyone else at the moment, except Kanye West ... I'd rather spit than say his name. What an arrogant, inconsiderate asshole.
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| October 8, 2011, 23:01 |
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NRG4U
63 / male
Beaver City, Nebraska, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I know there is talent out there, but there are just some things i cant tolerate. Michael Jackson, sure he cud dance, but i wudnt walk across the street to see him even if i had free tickets. I know he made a lot of money, but he never made a nickle off me, i even stopped drinking pepsi because of him.
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| October 8, 2011, 23:16 |
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thechunkyone
35 / male
elizabeth, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
im not a fan of steve jobs but i can admit he was pretty smart and would lose to him in alot of intellectual talk
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| October 9, 2011, 00:56 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
But you all seem to admit that they have talent. But like me they are not going to get your money and/or time for what ever reason.
I have come across many people that refuse to admit that people as bad as Hitler , or Manson, or Michael Jackson, or any of the other people that are believed to be bad in many peoples eyes are also smart or talented.
Bill Maher lost his TV show on broadcast TV because he said that the terrorists were not cowards. People might hate to hear that, but it was true. I hate those bastards as much as the next person. I lost friends because of them. I can say a lot of bad things about them. But I don't think I can call them cowards. I have a few other choice words I don't think I can use even on this site to describe those things. (I wont do animals an injustice be calling them animals.)
Funny how emotional we can get when things don't fall into the mold we think they should or at least the mold we want them to fall into. Life would be so much easier if all bad guys were stupid, uneducated, poor, ugly and looked like the boogieman.Just think of how the mother of Ted Bundy or Charles Manson felt when they looked at their children's eyes as little babies.I seriously doubt that anybody holds their child in their arms and imagines that someday that child can grow up to be one of the most horrendous people to roam the face of the earth. I hope none of us ever have to know the feeling that those parents got to live through as their children grew up.(If they were alive when their children did the things they did as adults.)
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| October 9, 2011, 03:00 |
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NRG4U
63 / male
Beaver City, Nebraska, US
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Re: Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
QUOTE (newbie1011 @ October 9, 2011, 03:00)But you all seem to admit that they have talent. But like me they are not going to get your money and/or time for what ever reason.
I have come across many people that refuse to admit that people as bad as Hitler , or Manson, or Michael Jackson, or any of the other people that are believed to be bad in many peoples eyes are also smart or talented.
Bill Maher lost his TV show on broadcast TV because he said that the terrorists were not cowards. People might hate to hear that, but it was true. I hate those bastards as much as the next person. I lost friends because of them. I can say a lot of bad things about them. But I don't think I can call them cowards. I have a few other choice words I don't think I can use even on this site to describe those things. (I wont do animals an injustice be calling them animals.)
Funny how emotional we can get when things don't fall into the mold we think they should or at least the mold we want them to fall into. Life would be so much easier if all bad guys were stupid, uneducated, poor, ugly and looked like the boogieman.Just think of how the mother of Ted Bundy or Charles Manson felt when they looked at their children's eyes as little babies.I seriously doubt that anybody holds their child in their arms and imagines that someday that child can grow up to be one of the most horrendous people to roam the face of the earth. I hope none of us ever have to know the feeling that those parents got to live through as their children grew up.(If they were alive when their children did the things they did as adults.)
Adolf Hitlers dream was to become a painter, but as a runner in WWI, his hand was injured,thus ending his dream. His real talent tho, was talking. He was able to convince a whole nation that he was their savior
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| October 9, 2011, 03:08 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Is it that he was that good or are people that stupid in general? We have seen this happen over and over in history.As a whole we don't learn from our previous mistakes. As people we seem to have the memory span of about 10 seconds.My mother has a great quote in regard to this. I have to get it from her. Basically we are like cattle and follow the neck shinny thing that comes along.
Squirrel!!!!
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| October 9, 2011, 04:50 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I think Natalie Maines, former Dixie Chick, has one of the most beautiful and soulful voices. Her talent truly awes me. I do not, however, believe that someone should use their celebrity status to bash the commander in chief. I don't care if it is Bush or Obama, the job of the highest office deserves our respect. I don't bash the president conservative or liberal, their job is far more complex than we could ever comprehend. I completely lost respect for her when she dissed the Prez...
I think her mouth should be used for its God given talent and respect her creative power to sing, if she wants to run for office and walk a mile in their shoes I would give her the same courtesy...
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| October 9, 2011, 16:18 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I love that people have strong opinions weather or not I agree. I respect the people that have opinions as long as they are based on real knowledge and hopefully common sense is in there as well.
I love this quote :"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office."
Many people avoid subjects like religion and politics and I totally get why. People get very opinionated and have very strong feelings about those subjects. I actually enjoy talking to people about those subjects . I should say,I enjoy talking to intelligent people about those subjects. I never like talking to ignorant morons about anything.
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| October 9, 2011, 21:00 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Whilst I can still admit that someone is talented, for me that is different than admiring them. Once someone has lost the respect I once had for them I can't actually admire anything about them.
I think for me everything comes as a package and I will admire the slightest tiniest skill someone has if I respect them and can blank the hugh talent a superstar has if I don't.
I will say I am seriously open minded and it takes a lot for me to totally lose respect for someone, but once I have that's it for me.
So yes I can accept/admit or recognise their talent still, but will never admire it again.
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| October 10, 2011, 22:35 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Josie I feel the same way but maybe word it different I can admire a piece of good art work as a piece of art that was obviously done by a person of extreme talent. But, that is very different from admiring a person. I can find out later that that art was from a person that is a total piece of crap and have no admiration for that person.However it doesn't make that artwork any less of a piece of art. It is just from a fucked up person. Remember there is that thin line between genius and insanity.I noticed many talented people in this world are totally fucked up! I was going to give a few examples of a few people we know and love from here but stopped myself.lol Seriously, look through history and look at the most famous artists or people that were considered genius. Most of them were also considered to be crazy or at least "eccentric".
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| October 13, 2011, 20:25 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Oh I agree Newbs that the product of such a person or mind can still be seen as art or whatever the medium actually is.
I suppose is all honesty for me it does come down to a individual by individual basis. Also I have a personal interest in mental health issues and therefore also try to understand why people do the things they do before condemning them to the "evil" bin. Many times I can see the route a genuinely ill mind can take and then sometimes things happen that are just to sick or evil for me to excuse or understand.
As I said in the first post I am extremely open minded and tolerant so it takes a lot for me to turn against someone and all they produce, but it does happen
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| October 13, 2011, 22:18 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
What if we knew nothing about the artiest other than what art piece we see in front of us?
I just watched something yesterday that really made me think of this even more and how we view things in general.
We all base our opinions based on how we were conditioned to believe what was good and bad or evil, or sick.Things that might have been wrong years ago are no longer looked at that way and some things that were acceptable years ago are no longer acceptable.Examples are slavery, marriage out of your race or religion, marriage between the same sex, sex between the same sex, or sex with people of a certain age, or sex with an animal.In some cases certain types of sex were and still are illegal, Oral or anal are still illegal in many places. Most or all of these thing were and in many cases looked at as an absolute bad thing.Some things we consider art are viewed as porn in some cultures.I believe in some cultures it is acceptable to marry a 13 or 14 year old girl even if you are a 30 or 40 year old. I know even in this country years ago it was common place for girls to marry at very young ages. I believe the general rule was if she was able to "bare children" she was old enough.
I think it was Law and Order that had a episode where a guy that was a pedophile was arguing that once upon a time gays were looked at as as sick as what people say he was. That was a pretty good argument. Except that a child doesn't have the cognitive ability to decide what they really want vs what they were convinced they want. But at some point in history someone or many people decided what is right or wrong or moral or immoral. Who decided for instance that the age of a child to become an adult is 18. In the Jewish religion a boy is considered a man at 13.
So how did we all start believing what "they" say is right or wrong? Who are the disgusting pigs of the world? There are stories in history of solders having homosexual sex or even bestiality because they were away so long. When did society say OH HELL NO! Then said well OK we will say gay sex is OK but that's where we draw the line. Not only did "they" change it legally but "they" conditioned almost all of the world to think it was disgusting in the worst way.
There are many examples of these things but you get the idea. So who are "they"? Why do so many follow without question? Who decided "they" are right? Are "they" any better or different from the Hitlers or Binladens of the world? Do you think the guy in the show could be right and someday people will be conditioned to think pedophiles are just another group born that way and shouldn't be looked at any different than any other group, (In his version he just loves young children in a different way and the children are well loved and pleasured.But he claimed they are born that way and should not be punished.)I know I can't imagine that but then again I bet some people felt the same way if you told them slaves would no longer be a regular thing and black families are the same as white families in this world.
I wonder how many of the great artiest that we admire today were considered sick disgusting mentally disturbed people in their time.
How long does it take to change the way a whole world of people think? And who makes them do the changing? I don't know if a group like that really exists but it was a strange and unexpected thing to watch. I give them credit for airing something so controversial.
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| October 14, 2011, 03:52 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I suppose to clarify my position my issues with people very rarely involve their sexual preferences. I do have and will always have a major problem with the abuse of children as I will never be convinced that in todays society a child matures enough mentally to make those decisions for themselves.
My personal opinion is that adults (and yes the argument about what age that means is way above my head, can consent to whatever they want as long as everyone involved is able to fully understand what that means. Which opens up the whole discussion of abuse of mentally ill people and the elderly etc etc etc, or simply just folks who have been held in abusive relationships because of sheer lack of confidence or fear.
I suppose what I am trying to say, probably badly lol, is that it is the person themselves and their general attitude to others that gets me. People who treat others with contempt or judge them and treat them badly, the superior people who think they have the right to behave how they like with no regard to others. That way lies disaster
I have no issue with race, age, size, sexual peference etc etc etc etc etc. I am really really happy to let people live their lives, but I also think we need to have some idea of common decency to make sure that everyone gets to live their lives and not just a small portion of the world.
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| October 14, 2011, 10:25 |
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GG317
60 / male
Bowl of Granola, Massachusetts, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
I don't get the whole premise of the Micheal Jackson scandal anyways. Ya he did drugs that you can't buy without a prescription, but if his own physician wouldn't buy them for him, he would have gotten them somewhere else. The doctor didn't make him take those drugs, heck he even said he warned him about taking them, but ultimately only Micheal took them. The other thing I don't get is this whole nonsense about defending Micheal's honor by his family. He was distant from them when he was alive, only close to Janet and Jermain. Now they feel the need to defend the death like it will somehow make them look less distant? Maybe the real reason has to do with the lawsuit riches they will get from this after everything is said and done, since I think Mike left them nothing... 
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| October 15, 2011, 02:16 |
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newbie1011
62 / female
The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Josie I think you worded your point well.
I just always wonder how so many people change beliefs and opinions and how it starts. I was thinking about this and realize that some of these happened due to Kings,Queens, Politicians, or Religious leaders who decide for whatever reason that something is good, bad, immoral,illegal etc.. and demand that their followers follow as they believe. At some point people do start to believe things if they are told it enough times or if it is passed down from an authority figure.
But it seems that as we progress though time and we are more educated and can look back through history this behavior would stop.People shouldn't be so easily convinced that their way is wrong or right without some scientific proof. But we still act like cattle and follow blindly. We still have fanatics that kill for not believing the way they do.At some point you have to think that man kind are all insane. I use this quote often :"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Another one I believe fits when talking about people in general is:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
As I said I certainly don't agree that pedophiles are like a gay person and should be excepted. As Josie put it so well in her response. Consent can't really be given by someone who isn't capable of understanding the situation and or consequences.I think most people would agree that that would be the line to draw.
But it is amazing that there are so many people that can be convinced to do such crazy things in life without even a second thought. I am sure most of you remember Jonestown and understand what I mean.Although the people doing the convincing can sometimes be very intelligent and convincing people.Maybe the real lesson is to never judge a book by it's cover.The only thing you might want to take at face value is the artwork some of these crazy people create.
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| October 15, 2011, 02:57 |
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Iwant2kssuallovr
62 / female
Bendover, Florida, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Here is another one I am not sure about his talent, Harry Wayne Casey. He is better known as KC and the Sunshine Band as he hails from Miami, Florida.
They had disco hits "That's the Way (I Like It)", "(Shake, Shake, Shake) Shake Your Booty", "I'm Your Boogie Man", "Keep It Comin' Love", "Get Down Tonight", "Give It Up", and "Please Don't Go".
I could not tell you other than he plays keyboard if he is talented? I guess he is because he did perform these songs, but even though I was a teen in the 70's, and actually saw him at Disney, on Grad Night, I have chosen to tune or block out these songs.
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| October 15, 2011, 23:52 |
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kamarel
60 / male
Alexandria, Louisiana, US
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Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
Being able to write pop hits is a talent. It also shows the lack of taste that those just older than us had.
*grins*
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| October 16, 2011, 00:03 |
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Iwant2kssuallovr
62 / female
Bendover, Florida, US
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Re: Re: Can you appreciated and/or admire someones talent and dislike the person?
QUOTE (kamarel @ October 16, 2011, 00:03)Being able to write pop hits is a talent. It also shows the lack of taste that those just older than us had.
*grins*
Well, richer, too!! 
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| October 16, 2011, 02:26 |
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