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Too Old To Rock
Why is it that there are Classic Rock radio stations that play an infinite number of hits from the past, but no stations that play new music from the musicians that made the classics?
One hit wonders probably outnumber artists who have scored multiple Top 10 hits. But I'm talking about proven artists who churned out hit after hit after hit with decades of success. Did they already give all that they had to offer? Are they too old and un-marketable? Or do we not buy their records because we don't know any of their music because we didn't hear it on the radio? And I'm referring to the likes of The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, John Mellencamp, Elton John etc. About the only band that seems to continually defy this trend is Bon Jovi (at least in the market I live in)
When John Mellencamp was inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame, he was introduced by Billy Joel, who said: "Keep wring the songs John, people need to hear them even if its on a truck commercial (referring to This Is Our Country on the ads for Chevy trucks) because they sure as hell ain't gonna hear them on the radio any more". In fact, the last song on Billy's last studio album is titled "The Last Word" signaling that he would not be producing any more work because there was no longer a way to market it.
As consumers, we typically purchase things that we know about. I know myself, I've purchased an album because of one song that I became familiar with.
I know I'm being a bit redundant with this thread, but I enjoy hearing new, well written songs but we don't get to hear them from people who have a proven track record of writing them. Does the music industry milk them for what they can and then toss them to the curb once they are too old to fit their image? Or have the artists already given us their best? I don't mean to ramble, but it just seems to me that the music business feeds us what THEY want us to hear. Before Beatlemania struck, George Martin was marketing the band to different record companies and one company executive told him "I'm sorry Mr. Martin, but guitar bands are on the way out". Good career move, huh?
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May 11, 2011, 13:23 |
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NRG4U
63 / male Beaver City, Nebraska, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
well said, I remember going to a concert in Boulder Colo in 1983 & John Mellencamp was a young upcoming artist, opening for The Who" ... the crowd actually BOOED John off stage
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May 11, 2011, 13:35 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
what really pisses me off, is the way some classic rock stations have caved in and started censoring songs. and i'm not talking about new songs, i'm talking about songs that have been around for years, and suddenly, some prude thinks a lyric is to "risque" to be heard on the air, so they edit it. i am appalled every time i hear classic songs like Ted Nugent's "Cat Scratch Fever" the line is "i make the pussy purr with the stroke of my hand" and it's been that way since 1977, then one day, i hear "i make the @#$%%# purr with the stroke of my hand...???). another example is "Life in the Fast Lane" by the Eagles. Done Henley clearly sings "haven't seen a God Damn thing", and again now it's "haven't seen a @X#$ !@#C thing"...
LEAVE THE CLASSICS ALONE....they were good enough to play on the radio for a long time, if you don't like it, DON'T LISTEN TO IT....
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May 11, 2011, 13:49 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I have to agree with ya there. We only have 1 classic rock station here and their format is pretty much a loop - whatever song you hear at 11:15 AM, you will hear everyday at that same time. I quit listening years ago because of the constant repetition. There's a plethora of songs that fall into the category of Classic Rock - I know, I've lived through them - but once again, this station only plays certain ones over and over and over. And other than their daily Beatles Hour and an occasional 60's song by the Stones, everything they play is from the mid 70's. Classic Rock includes a helluva lot more than that.
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May 11, 2011, 14:04 |
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NRG4U
63 / male Beaver City, Nebraska, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
true enough, u never hear songs from Dave Edmunds, Nilsson Schmillson, & the likes of them
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May 11, 2011, 14:43 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
it could be that so many people are listening to internet radio, that broadcast stations don't bother playing as much.
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May 11, 2011, 14:45 |
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NRG4U
63 / male Beaver City, Nebraska, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
whens the last time you heard a song from Andy kim or Mouth & MacNeal or Vanity Fair
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May 11, 2011, 14:57 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
actually, there's a local station that has a 70's hour every Sunday night, and i hear "Rock Me Gently" played all the time. lol
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May 11, 2011, 15:06 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I dunno....it's all marketing and ratings I guess, most, not all but most of the classic rock fans I know, don't want to hear the artist's new stuff, they just want to hear the same ole songs they remember from their early high school young adult glory days.
Steely Dan was fantasitc, when they created new albums, about the only place to hear them was on VH1. Some people just want to relive the memory of their youth, and seeing the older aging artist reminds them of their own aging, and the older music floods them with memories of a more youthful carefree time.
I've heard on more than one station, after playing classic Steely Dan, the jocks would say something about "...and that was when Steely Dan was cool"
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May 11, 2011, 15:14 |
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perveman
111 / male Tucson, Arizona, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Just maybe, I'm a bit older than it appears. But I would be interested in (especially watching) nor hearing anything new from one as Jerry Lee Lewis. Paleez! Saw him on tv recently, and how can I put this, "not at all what he was". It was sad to see. Used to be he jammed! Looked as though, they got him out of the home, where he drooled, food dropped out of his mouth, put depends on him, propped him up at a piano, and for sure, after one song, was ready for a nap. Point is, not marketable, and basically, and sadly, the answer to anything in today's world is, "follow the money trail". Think about anything in life, it leads back to money.
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May 11, 2011, 16:08 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I think that some of the best songs will never be played on the radio. That's why I don't just buy one song, I buy the whole album. My favorites are almost always the cuts that are never released. Music execs put out what they think is marketable and that's usually something geared for a 12 year old. The music is empty..give me a song with heart and soul and meaning.
Just a side note here... I went to a party down on music row last night and there were several bands. Some were awesome some were not so great but I just have to say.. The Civil Wars were by far the best act. I think they will make it big!
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May 11, 2011, 16:32 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
It's just pure science, biology I think, we associate memories with smells, tastes, sounds . Those things become triggers that realease brain chemicals. Hearing music from a happy time in our lives releases happy chemicals. I know, ya'all are familiar with all that.
I don't listen to classic rock, I listen to new alternative mostly, but when I'm somewhere where I hear a song from my past that a good memory is assigned to, I certainly do feel that chemical release, it's nice.
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May 11, 2011, 18:51 |
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perveman
111 / male Tucson, Arizona, US
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (perveman @ May 11, 2011, 16:08)Just maybe, I'm a bit older than it appears. But I would be interested in (especially watching) nor hearing anything new from one as Jerry Lee Lewis. Paleez! Saw him on tv recently, and how can I put this, "not at all what he was". It was sad to see. Used to be he jammed! Looked as though, they got him out of the home, where he drooled, food dropped out of his mouth, put depends on him, propped him up at a piano, and for sure, after one song, was ready for a nap. Point is, not marketable, and basically, and sadly, the answer to anything in today's world is, "follow the money trail". Think about anything in life, it leads back to money. Once again, I did'nt proof-read, should have been "not be intererted (in Lewis)". And did'nt mean to come off as too cynical re: money, just a fact of life, as I sef it.
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May 11, 2011, 20:25 |
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kamarel
60 / male Alexandria, Louisiana, US
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (needafuck82 @ May 11, 2011, 16:32)I think that some of the best songs will never be played on the radio. That's why I don't just buy one song, I buy the whole album. My favorites are almost always the cuts that are never released. Music execs put out what they think is marketable and that's usually something geared for a 12 year old. The music is empty..give me a song with heart and soul and meaning.
You just gained a boatload of respect for that statement.
As far as the censorship goes? Buy speakers for your pc and stream. Pandora, rhapsody, and Juke box all stream uncut versions of everything. Also if you setup a few artists to stream they'll add more they think are similar in style.
Steely Dan wasn't cool. They were smooth.
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May 11, 2011, 21:58 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Kam is the man. He gets it!
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May 12, 2011, 01:08 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Kam? I call him Deacon Blue
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May 12, 2011, 12:14 |
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kamarel
60 / male Alexandria, Louisiana, US
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (Chazzy @ May 12, 2011, 12:14)Kam? I call him Deacon Blue
No static at all.
Hey, anyone else here Peter Wolf and J Geils kissed and made up? Apparently the original band is on tour.
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May 13, 2011, 01:15 |
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wandering5tar
53 / male London, England, UK
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Re: Too Old To Rock
People try to put us d-down
Just because we g-g-get around
Things they do look awful c-c-cold
Yeah, I hope I die before I get old
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May 13, 2011, 08:00 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
That does say allot.
Every generation thinks that theirs had the best music and today's lyrics have no meaning. My dad said it, my grampa said it, his grampa said it...
Good and bad examples in every decade as far back as you can take it.
There's great new music, with fantastic and meaningful lyrics
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May 13, 2011, 11:40 |
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perveman
111 / male Tucson, Arizona, US
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (wandering5tar @ May 13, 2011, 08:00)People try to put us d-down
Just because we g-g-get around
Things they do look awful c-c-cold
Yeah, I hope I die before I get old Getting older, is not it's cracked up to be. In my day, it was, "Party hardy, die young, and leave a good looking corpse". Way too late for me, and believe me, I did my best, even before my rock day's with all the groupies hanging around all us band menbers. Got my memories.
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May 13, 2011, 11:48 |
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Iwant2kssuallovr
62 / female Bendover, Florida, US
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Re: Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (perveman @ May 13, 2011, 11:48 Getting older, is not it's cracked up to be. In my day, it was, "Party hardy, die young, and leave a good looking corpse". Way too late for me, and believe me, I did my best, even before my rock day's with all the groupies hanging around all us band menbers. Got my memories.
I wonder about this? I was reading about Tom Jones, and the days of his dalliances. He claims 250 women a year. He insisted on two dressing rooms. One strictly to entertain his groupies. How long or brief might this encounter be, and why? How does it make one feel? Is their satisfaction for both?
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May 13, 2011, 14:45 |
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perveman
111 / male Tucson, Arizona, US
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (Iwant2kssuallovr @ May 13, 2011, 14:45) QUOTE (perveman @ May 13, 2011, 11:48 Getting older, is not it's cracked up to be. In my day, it was, "Party hardy, die young, and leave a good looking corpse". Way too late for me, and believe me, I did my best, even before my rock day's with all the groupies hanging around all us band menbers. Got my memories.
I wonder about this? I was reading about Tom Jones, and the days of his dalliances. He claims 250 women a year. He insisted on two dressing rooms. One strictly to entertain his groupies. How long or brief might this encounter be, and why? How does it make one feel? Is their satisfaction for both? All I can say, that was then, this is now. Totally different world.
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May 13, 2011, 17:28 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I know I hear a ton of classic rock and country stuff. As far as new releases from the older artists I do know that in the country genre the "Nashville Money Machine" which I despise as they take a style AND look of a artist /singer that creates a hit and clones them...one after the other. Way before Taylor Swift there was Deanna Carter, then Carolyn Dawn Johnson....both writers, and talented. I take nothing away from the "new crop"...it's just that as it is in all forms of entertainment if something makes money, suddenly there's a ton of them. As far as the people mentioned, after them the blonds with a UNCANNY similar voice were pouring out! Same for Trace Adkins...the guy is flat out great, I was lucky enough to meet and speak with him a bit when we warmed up for him and Jo Dee Messina a few years back. But...he has a couple chart busters and suddenly the radio is bombarded with the low, bass voiced singers, doing the very same "type" or style of music. I tip my hat several times to those that told Nashville to kiss their ass and got OFF the treadmill, moved away and were still huge...a few examples, Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson, Waylon...they were like "Okay I'm not a vitalis, wear a suit kind of guy"...and left. Sadly though as the new ones come in, the older artists, some that owned the charts years ago, making the record label millions are kicked to the curb. As with everything.....the dollar overrides compassion. More than a few artists were suddenly dropped from the label they made millions for, and shunned. Again it happens in most all genres, I am using country music as an example.
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May 15, 2011, 14:31 |
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (Grandelf @ May 15, 2011, 14:31)I know I hear a ton of classic rock and country stuff. As far as new releases from the older artists I do know that in the country genre the "Nashville Money Machine" which I despise as they take a style AND look of a artist /singer that creates a hit and clones them...one after the other. Way before Taylor Swift there was Deanna Carter, then Carolyn Dawn Johnson....both writers, and talented. I take nothing away from the "new crop"...it's just that as it is in all forms of entertainment if something makes money, suddenly there's a ton of them. As far as the people mentioned, after them the blonds with a UNCANNY similar voice were pouring out! Same for Trace Adkins...the guy is flat out great, I was lucky enough to meet and speak with him a bit when we warmed up for him and Jo Dee Messina a few years back. But...he has a couple chart busters and suddenly the radio is bombarded with the low, bass voiced singers, doing the very same "type" or style of music. I tip my hat several times to those that told Nashville to kiss their ass and got OFF the treadmill, moved away and were still huge...a few examples, Merle Haggard, Willie Nelson, Waylon...they were like "Okay I'm not a vitalis, wear a suit kind of guy"...and left. Sadly though as the new ones come in, the older artists, some that owned the charts years ago, making the record label millions are kicked to the curb. As with everything.....the dollar overrides compassion. More than a few artists were suddenly dropped from the label they made millions for, and shunned. Again it happens in most all genres, I am using country music as an example.
As always, I agree with you. Its about time that the people that actually MAKE the music take over!I know, its not as easy as that, but it should be.
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May 16, 2011, 02:45 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Years ago Rock somewhat peaked as the production and yes talent was so good, it was like now what? I refer to GREAT bands like Styx, Journey...Just two quick examples. All the singers have near angelic voices, the harmonies are compressed to sound perfect.."Feelin that Way", by Journey, the vocals are what I mean. SO finally it was now what? And that's when I read something Tom Petty said, and that was "It's time to put down all the toys, electric music emulation shit, and get back to draggin in your amp, pluggin in.....and play damn music."...And that's what his style is! Like him or not, Tom Petty, John Cougar..again only two examples...I thought they'd saved the day. Again don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of the previous mentioned bands...But, just when the rock and roll / music train was on the right track....we get rap. Tortured by disco, and rap shows up...There's a few of the older ones with the in your face rock and roll, Seger, Bruce Springsteen are from the "Shit god damn get off your ass and jam" days....One elfs opinion too is that I am not a metal fan, I have chainsaws for that...Metallica...I can take in small, very small doses..but the guitar is so overdriven it is like the kid that says he can play, cranks up the distortion so much you'd not know he made a mistake....hiding behind fuzz. I've said to a few that asked me about guitar and I said, "Turn off the pedals, and play the same thing, can you play it cleanly without the overdrive? If yes, by all means crank it up...but many can't. Slipknot, damn what is this shit? I heard a solo song by the lead singer and it was very good! But in the band you'd never know he could sing..it's muthafucker this and muthafucker that..my son likes them so I watched a few videos....It's like Armegeddon of racket..I am no musical prude, my son came over and showd me a Metallica song that was pretty cool. He had learned the bass line so I grabbed the guitar and learned the key rythm riff of the song so we could jam. I have used the term "chainsaw rock" for a number of years now and almost fell out of my seat when a video comes on, and the lead singer had a ...you guessed it, a chainsaw! Between screaming what I think were words, he'd hold it up to the mic and full throttle..LOL, everything, every noise has a musical note. A baby crying a coin dropped on the floor...you can then go to a piano, and find a note to match anything, a vacuum cleaner. So they found what "key" the chainsaw was in at full throttle, and created a song around it!! I had to laugh more as I was imagining trying to "tune a chainsaw"...proper octane, adjust the carb...Screw that, listen to Zeppelin and what they did musically for the most part as a trio! Okay, down off the soapbox and back to looking for my geritol...
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May 19, 2011, 10:06 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Geritol, my ass! That was a great analogy! I especially like and agree with the Tom Petty quote. A couple of years ago, I saw Bon Jovi Unplugged. I was never a fan of them back when they were in the whole Hair Band Era. But one thing that Jon said during an interview portion of Unplugged was "A good song doesn't need all the pomp and circumstance". Well, listening to so many of those old songs stripped down without the screaming guitars and signature squawk box riffs were excellent.
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May 19, 2011, 10:58 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
The entire Bon Jovi "New Jersey" cd is awesome, and I have always thought he had a great and versatile voice, a great band. There's a lot of bands that I don't like everything they've done, some aren't my taste, but that means nothing in terms of whether or not they are talented...it's just the "So much fuzz you can't distinguish what's being played" and I refer to certain bands, Or being mainly a bass player, it's often now days not even a guitar, but computer. Plus I really refer to the new guitarists we hear in say the music store...I used to call them Van Halenites, because they'd be doing all the hammer ons, and riffs from certain songs and such, but try and get them to jam...Say "Okay this is key of A, the verses are 1-4-5, the chorus is 1-4-5. then the bridge throws in 1-2-4-5, so it's verse, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, chorus, repeat, end..write it down for sure as far as order, verse-chorus etc... but that's three chord stuff.....or more basic, just play any key and tell them it's three chord...and they can't follow. Biggest issue than that though for me, is if they shut down the tube screamer, their playing is not clean, has no muting, it's garbage...it's all hiding behind the stompbox. "Power chords", three string chords are actually okay, unless it's all one knows...Having auditioned many guitarists I used to see it all the time...they don't even know what a rhythm guitarists job is..even IF they knew basic chord patterns...
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May 22, 2011, 06:06 |
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I had GAC on yesterday and they started doing their Top 20 Video countdown. At Number 20? THE DOOBIE BROTHERS! Now THATS what I'm talking about! A brand new song from a classic band and it sounded fantastic! I wouldnt necessarily have characterized it as Country, but at least it was getting played!
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May 22, 2011, 12:20 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
You know the answer to all this always comes down to MONEY!
It's a complicated business to say the least. Years ago it was a bit less complicated. If you wanted time on the radio you team would just pay off the DJ. Its not quit that simple these days. I refer to this as the "Johnny Bravo syndrome" If a management company decides you have the right look (If the suit fits, for you Brady bunch watchers you understand the reference) then they will make you a pop star.They will teach you the moves , make you sound good in a studio, give you a makeover and promote the hell out of you through the many venues and media that they control. Of course there are the managers,lawyers, agents and numerous other people that own the "Talent" that get a big chunk of whatever money is made so there has to be a lot. If by some slim chance you happen to have a real talent and get enough clout to have some say in your music and shows and life in general then that can make the difference in how things go down the line but that's a very small percentage of the talents out there these days.
Many of the older more proven talent like Billy Joel, Rolling Stones, Stevie Nix are still around and get some play when they decide to do something. As a side note they are still the ones that can do a concert by themselves and sell out huge venues in minutes at crazy prices. The newer so called talent seem to have 5 or more bands on the ticket to get a venue sold out. So we know that tells the real story. But everyone has a shelf life and the reality is the Rolling Stones and Billy Joels of the world are not going to pump out new stuff like they did when they were younger so the powers at be are trying to lay the ground work for the future of their bank accounts.They also can't control the talents like Billy Joel and the Rolling Stones like they can the new kids coming up the ladder. The older guys have to much clout they have proven themselves. Do you really think they can say to Eric Clapton for instance "You are going to do two shows a day and seven appearances in the next week on TV shows because if you don't we wont promote you." He would laugh at them.
The people that have staying power also have the say in what they do and even better they actually have talent. most of them can write, read and play their music as well as sing with out the studio equipment to keep them on key.You don't see that to often with the newer so called talents.
As always people have to remember no mater what music is to you for the rest of these people it is a business and it will always be treated as such.
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May 22, 2011, 22:29 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
It's been about money going back generations..again I refer to the Nashville shit...prime examples and I SO respect the few that told Nashville to fuck off. I admire songwriters big time, Merle Haggard has recorded well over 50 albums/ cds, does some cover tunes but wrote the vast majority. I've seen clips when he was young, as well as Willy, Waylon...all Vitalis and suits! Merle Haggard in a suit....now there's something you'd rarely see...and it WAS rare because he went to go on the opery stage and they told him what songs he was to do and in what order...he told them to take the place and ram it up their ass...threw the suit away and went back to California, where he proceeded to go on to be one of the greatest song writers of all time. A genius of a writer he is. Willy followed and found a home in Texas, he knew Waylon was on the money treadmill and in a suit...called him up one night and said "Hoss, git yer ass out here".....because Willy was kicking ass in rock clubs, as well as country bars. Waylon asked how he kept from getting killed playing in rock and roll joints and he said "Hell I don't know, but get your ass out here!"...So Waylon told told Nashville to bite him and left. This was wayyyy before the Urban Cowboy craze...Nashville refused to bend, and it began happening with other artists. Years later...and I love this along come the Dixie Chicks...They were SO far from what Nashville accepted in looks...manners, to the total package, BUT for one thing...their music. They were selling CD's, having number one hit after another...so NOW Nashville, because of money and what they'd lost before accepted the Dixie Chicks...while biting their lips and cringing...the machine didn't stop, oh no, it's as bad or worse now, but they brought it to a screeching halt, and I laaughed.....did the happy dance. Whether I liked their music or not doesn't matter....I do, but it's that they got over the wall of shitheads and got noticed. Rock allowed through the years for much more diversity, I love all genres..country and folk are where my roots came from, but LOVE old rock..and Jazz and Blues...it's all the same...the language of tone spoken in different ways. I listen to the radio, but little, as one artist will have a hit, and the next thing you know you hear a clone...not just in country music either. The electronic age has been great, but many that use the new wonderment of technology have stripped music of it's language, it's heart. Older rock songs, have kick ass, you best know what you're doing bass lines, rare is it now...starting in the 80's...that started to change. You rarely hear an Allman Brothers style, Zeppelin style, Grand Funk, YES...bass anymore. Even if it is a human, those days are gone...
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May 22, 2011, 23:37 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (Grandelf @ May 22, 2011, 23:37)It's been about money going back generations..again I refer to the Nashville shit...prime examples and I SO respect the few that told Nashville to fuck off. I admire songwriters big time, Merle Haggard has recorded well over 50 albums/ cds, does some cover tunes but wrote the vast majority. I've seen clips when he was young, as well as Willy, Waylon...all Vitalis and suits! Merle Haggard in a suit....now there's something you'd rarely see...and it WAS rare because he went to go on the opery stage and they told him what songs he was to do and in what order...he told them to take the place and ram it up their ass...threw the suit away and went back to California, where he proceeded to go on to be one of the greatest song writers of all time. A genius of a writer he is. Willy followed and found a home in Texas, he knew Waylon was on the money treadmill and in a suit...called him up one night and said "Hoss, git yer ass out here".....because Willy was kicking ass in rock clubs, as well as country bars. Waylon asked how he kept from getting killed playing in rock and roll joints and he said "Hell I don't know, but get your ass out here!"...So Waylon told told Nashville to bite him and left. This was wayyyy before the Urban Cowboy craze...Nashville refused to bend, and it began happening with other artists. Years later...and I love this along come the Dixie Chicks...They were SO far from what Nashville accepted in looks...manners, to the total package, BUT for one thing...their music. They were selling CD's, having number one hit after another...so NOW Nashville, because of money and what they'd lost before accepted the Dixie Chicks...while biting their lips and cringing...the machine didn't stop, oh no, it's as bad or worse now, but they brought it to a screeching halt, and I laaughed.....did the happy dance. Whether I liked their music or not doesn't matter....I do, but it's that they got over the wall of shitheads and got noticed. Rock allowed through the years for much more diversity, I love all genres..country and folk are where my roots came from, but LOVE old rock..and Jazz and Blues...it's all the same...the language of tone spoken in different ways. I listen to the radio, but little, as one artist will have a hit, and the next thing you know you hear a clone...not just in country music either. The electronic age has been great, but many that use the new wonderment of technology have stripped music of it's language, it's heart. Older rock songs, have kick ass, you best know what you're doing bass lines, rare is it now...starting in the 80's...that started to change. You rarely hear an Allman Brothers style, Zeppelin style, Grand Funk, YES...bass anymore. Even if it is a human, those days are gone...
I want to apologize for getting on such a long winded roll or tangent on this topic. It's just that I've seen so many great, great talents get overlooked, or shunned because they didn't "play the part" of commercialism. Because they didn't or don't jump on the wagon, adhere to the money thing they get overlooked. This whole area, topic has been a biggy to me for many years. Still...I know I get like buttah, on a roll....
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May 23, 2011, 14:03 |
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wandering5tar
53 / male London, England, UK
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Re: Re: Re: Too Old To Rock
QUOTE (Grandelf @ May 23, 2011, 14:03)
I want to apologize for getting on such a long winded roll or tangent on this topic. It's just that I've seen so many great, great talents get overlooked, or shunned because they didn't "play the part" of commercialism. Because they didn't or don't jump on the wagon, adhere to the money thing they get overlooked. This whole area, topic has been a biggy to me for many years. Still...I know I get like buttah, on a roll....
Well, if you're like butter, let's hope the ladies on here are like margarine - easily spread...
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May 23, 2011, 14:37 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I like to think I'm more like butter.I'm the real thing and if you warm me up right then I spread real easy. If not I can be a cold hard bitch.
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May 24, 2011, 03:31 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Grandelf I can't believe I am saying this because I don't think this has ever happened with us. I disagree with you.
I don't think music has died or that the talent is gone. There will always be those who have talent, heart and live for music. You might not hear them on the radio or see them on TV but everyone knows those media are dying anyway. They are finding new ways to showcase their talent and music. I have three kids 16, 22, 25 and Kam has a 22 year old and I have to say all of them find the good stuff out there. Its just in places that aren't controlled by the record companies as munch. The Internet alone has made it possible for musicians to get discovered and huge before a record company even hears their name.
My oldest son just opened a place that showcases local bands and I have to say that bands are starting to call from all over trying to get in there to play even though they get paid very little.I am amazed how fast the 20 something crowd got word of this venue are are now flocking to the place and they had only 3 miner shows last year and only been open for 2 Saturday nights so far this year. They are opening 4 nights a week for the summer but not until June. Musicians that are in it because they love it still exist and there are many talented people and many people that want to see them.I don't think anyone can really kill off the people that really love it they might only be able to push it underground for a bit. But to be honest I kind of like when its not main stream and being controlled and censored so you get to see or hear the real vision of the artist.
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May 24, 2011, 03:51 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Congratulations and best of luck to your son on his new venture! I hope it turns into the next Stone Pony for him!
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May 24, 2011, 11:39 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Well I see what your saying and maybe I said what I did the wrong way, music will always have pioneers, great talent..I am saying the industry is about money. A legend of a country star, Faron Young owned the charts in the 50's..he made more money FOR his record company than one could imagine. ( I met and played in a warm up band for his son, who carries on his legacy.) After so many years, and so many hits, the just dropped him, and for no reason other than he wasn't the young, black hat, 30 inch waisted with a hubcap belt buckle singer Nashville was accepting. He was loved still by his fans, had a huge following...but they just dumped him, not due to drinking, drugs, just because of money. So he, who was always upbeat, funny...shot himself. THAT'S the machine...and what I meant by dead is the new music going back quite a few years now, had the bass player in shackles, if their is one on the original recording. I grab the bass for a couple hours daily and play anything from Steely Dan to Seger, to James Taylor, Marshall Tucker, Gordon Lightfoot's songs have GREAT bass lines in them.. the list is endless, and you hear some creativity coming from the bass. You see when I was in the last band I played with, we were playing the newer, and older stuff. So I'd be free to play with some license creatively and then depending on the song, I'd be shackled. There is and always will be great players out there...the industry see'd to it that many are worthy yet never heard....There's a great singer song writer, Kevin Welch who coined it laughingly but put it well. He said another great song writer told him "Always write from your heart, the songs need to come from within"...and he then laughed and added "And I do, and it's cost me a LOT of money".
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May 24, 2011, 11:43 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
I understand but to be honest the "Industry" hasn't changed.It's always been about money I dated a guy who owend two concert venues in NY and spent many nights at CBGB's, the Ritz, and several other places with many performers in every genre you can think of . Musicians, comedians, actors, artists and any other creative thing you can think of and they will all tell you the same stories as far back as you can go. My grandfather had a famous song he wrote for my grandmother stolen from him and made very popular by a big band guy. He thought he was a friend till he stole the song. It was all about money.That killed my Grandfather because he was one of those guys that if he shook your hand you knew he would stick to what he said no matter what.
Its just that the media and technology have changed and the public is more aware of these things these days. The methods might be different but greed is greed and its always been there and every one of these guys is all about "What have you done for me lately?"
Grandelf I think you have my FB page go look at the list of people on there I think all except 3 are musicians.I know most since they were in Grammar school and they live and breath music.Most are doing it full time and a few are travelling the world doing what they love most. Check out Sly's stuff on there.
Free: Funny you should mention the Stone Pony. They are considered the only competition around that are even close to what my son is doing. They have a few of the same bands playing but my son has the only outdoor venue and around here that's pretty nice in the summer. Its only open in the summer.I am glad because he would never sleep if he were open all year.
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May 24, 2011, 12:37 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Uhm, I said the industry hasn't changed thus Faron Young shot himself..I am also talking instrumentation, the role or non role certain instruments today. I am talking about the industry yes, but I am also talking the human factor, I am sorry but a synth bass hasn't anywhere near the heart and feel as the real thing. Electronic anything is emulation of a sound..the quality of music, not songs...music has steadily faltered, not in all genres fully....probably a little in each. Ask any bass player what todays songs are like to play compared to years ago, in terms of challenge, and expression. Greed is everywhere, and everything suffers due to it. Music just happens to be my thing so I am more passionate about it. Knowing musicians and playing music, are two totally different things. That to me is like when someone goes to music row with a boom box, records themself singing and playing, then returns home as a "Nashville recording artist." Or when we played in Canada, in our promo pack we were suddenly "International"...I fell over laughing. But if we didn't have opinions that sometimes vary what a dull place this world would be...Amennnnnnnnnnnnnn
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May 24, 2011, 15:46 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Isn't this what Free and I normally do, not me and you? lol
I know what your saying and agree to a point but not completely. I sometimes like when things go this way for a little while.I see two things that happen. Sometimes you have the rare musician that can take the new technology that normally sucks and turn it on its side and discover a way to make it fresh and amazing. (OK I'm still waiting for that part.)But what I am starting to see in the music world even at a very local small level is that some musicians are so frustrated they are going back to the basics. I am starting to see even more stand up base players get into a rock band here or there. Now that is something you don't see everyday. They say "We decided to do it old school" lol
I have started to see a bit of a "we are mad and we are not going to take it anymore" attitude in the real musicians.
I certainly would never claim to be a music expert even if I spent my entire life in those clubs with those guys. (Sometimes I felt I did.)I couldn't carry a tune or play a note without clearing out the place. But if you ever need to clear a large stadium very quickly I'm your girl! I am however pretty aware about the business end of it is more the point I was trying to make. That was the part I was saying hasn't changed in any business. It's just that in the arts it always seems more cut throat and nasty but even worse it effects the art and artist itself.
Some believe it weeds out the weak who can't handle it but it sometimes destroys the heart and sole of a great talent. It sounds like that is the case of your friend.
You don't have to be a musician or an expert to know when you see or hear a person that the music or what ever their art comes from a place deeper than we will ever truly understand.That I do know from personal experience.I've always tried to explain it to people like a paint by numbers painting. You can have someone put all the colors in all the right places but it doesn't make it a great painting(although they are collectable these days. lol) When a real artist paints it flows with every color and every brush stroke.That's how the experts can tell the difference between the real masterpiece and a very well done imitation. The real one ,you can see the difference in the way the true artist used his brush and blended his colors so perfectly that even those who be considered artists in their own right can't compare to the real master of that art.
By the way Happy birthday to Bob Dylan!
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May 24, 2011, 17:38 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
Well as far as I see it, I say we just get nekkid and wrestle this thing out...
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May 24, 2011, 20:20 |
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newbie1011
62 / female The Shore, New Jersey, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
As I've always told you. I love the way your mind works.lol
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May 24, 2011, 22:22 |
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Grandelf
64 / male Northern, Michigan, US
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Re: Too Old To Rock
And as I've told you, the feeling is soooooo mutual....
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May 25, 2011, 00:08 |
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