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Care to bet?
So, it turns out that the gunman at NIU bought his guns from the same dealer in Green Bay, WI as the gunman at VT. 
Care to bet how long it takes for this mans license to get pulled?
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| February 15, 2008, 22:02 |
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Re: Care to bet?
I dunno what to think at times...sane, law abiding, God fearing people buying guns, not a problem....
The NIU shootings was north east of me, the Kirkwood City Hall shootings were just east of me...
It's all the "...saw it coming" crap that comes after the fact that is the most upsetting to me...
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| February 15, 2008, 22:10 |
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Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Chazzy @ February 15, 2008, 22:10)I dunno what to think at times...sane, law abiding, God fearing people buying guns, not a problem....
The NIU shootings was north east of me, the Kirkwood City Hall shootings were just east of me...
It's all the "...saw it coming" crap that comes after the fact that is the most upsetting to me...
I know exactly how you feel. Seems no one has any interest in preventing anything now. just speculation after.
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| February 15, 2008, 22:14 |
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wandering5tar
53 / male
London, England, UK
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Re: Care to bet?
Well, gun crime is on the increase in the UK but mostly linked to drugs and gangs. We seem to have less of these incidents thankfully, but we don't have a gun-owning culture. Until they invent truly "Smart Weapons" i.e. ones that only shoot bad guys, I'd prefer that no-one had them.
As Lynyrd Skynyrd put it:
It's a Saturday Night Special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Aint good for nothing
But put a man 6 feet in a hole
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| February 16, 2008, 05:29 |
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Mooant
41 / male
New Britain, Connecticut, US
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Re: Care to bet?
Of all the people that buy guns and all the people that regularly use guns and all the people that work with guns on a regular basis, there is a incredibly small percentage of people that actually shoot another person. Of the people that are shot, an incredibly small percentage of those people were shot intentionally. People like to blame our problems on something else, but the plain truth is that someone didn't think things through and made a terrible and costly mistake.
I won't even watch the news anymore, so when I finally do hear about these shootings, everyone is already speculating that the idiot in question played too much video games. EVERY fucking time that this happens, they immediately try ro blame it on video games because that was the excuse they used from the kids at Columbine. But that's just it, a stupid excuse. Read the above paragraph again and substitute gun for video games and you get the same argument. The idiot from the Virginia Tech shootings didn't even play video games and the politicians still tried using it as an excuse to tighten regulations on them, and I can guarantee they are going to try doing the same again now.
The truth is that we are all responsible for our own actions. Whatever we choose to do, we have to stand up and say it was our responsibility when the time comes. To try and blame our actions on something or someone else is a slap in the face of God who gave us FREE WILL to do what we want. Any excuse just shows how weak and undeserving you truly are. If there's ever a shooting where the idiot survives, I want to be on his jury, so I can listen to all his bullshit about how the "video games made me do it" and I can vote guilty and watch him rot in jail.
If our species started thinking about standing up for its own actions and put an emphasis on it, instead of trying to pass the blame, stupid shit like this wouldn't happen all the time. Needless to say, this news makes me upset for what happened, why it happened, and all of the bullshit we're going to have to go through now that it has happened. Feel free to edit my language if it offended anyone, its just the only way I can think this out after hearing about this idiot.
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| February 16, 2008, 08:30 |
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Re: Care to bet?
I don't blame video games, hell before video games, we blamed violent movies and devil music! Before that it was toys, parents rethought buying thier little boys plastic pretend guns and bb rifles.
We've also blamed poverty, drugs, lead paint in lower income housing.
Some people slip through the cracks.
Some live in very normal humanlike pods, but on the inside...there's violence and evil ready to crack out of the shell. Sometimes it's the trauma of life they have led that makes them crack or smap. Sometimes it's a physical medical thing.
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| February 16, 2008, 09:22 |
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Re: Care to bet?
Last night I was reading on CNN's website, this guy seemed to be normal, a good student, active in his education, a model kid. I think the same applies to dogs that attack. There is no real reason, something inside animal or man snaps and makes them go haywire. This guy was a good student, specializing in criminal justice, vice president of the criminal justice counsel (I don't know the actual name of the club), he had written papers, he was a nice looking young man , counselors and students cared for him. He snapped, I don't think it is video games, I don't think it is one incident in particular, he went crazy.
Our need to understand something so tragic makes people blame all sorts of things but the truth is, I don't want to understand what his state of mind, to understand would make me journey to the mad state he was in. The simple fact is he killed five people and himself. His parents didn't expect it, they felt like they had raised an honorable young man . In his state of emotional turmoil he took with him five young lives and their futures. He singlehandedly made the choice to destroy five families, his own family, and break the hearts of all who knew these five people. He also put a nation that is curious beyond comprehension about sensationalism and destruction, that can't get enough of the details. Which is why the news, the "specialist" on crimes like these crawl out of the woodwork to investigate things.
I say, leave it to the police to investigate, and let us focus on the young lives lost in this. I want to know about the victims, not the person that took their lives. Tell me what I'll be missing from not knowing who they were.
Guns do not hurt others when they are not in the hands of the wrong people. How could you possibly fathom what evil lurks in someone's mind when you sell him something. Steak knives are sold everywhere from grocery stores to specialty cooking stores and unless in the wrong hands they are a tool, not a weapon.
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| February 16, 2008, 11:01 |
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Re: Care to bet?
The guy did have some red flags, he was a trouble child, spent a year in a home for troubled youths, and had shown troubling behaviour all his short life but did not have a criminal history. But not every kid like that gets up and snipers the hell out of a school.
The Kirkwood City Hall shooter, well...it's the ole saying "You can't fight city hall" There's a reason that this saying came to being...he was just a business owner that tried to do things with the city through the city for years and years and just finally snapped.
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| February 16, 2008, 11:07 |
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Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Chazzy @ February 16, 2008, 11:07)The guy did have some red flags, he was a trouble child, spent a year in a home for troubled youths, and had shown troubling behaviour all his short life but did not have a criminal history. But not every kid like that gets up and snipers the hell out of a school.
The Kirkwood City Hall shooter, well...it's the ole saying "You can't fight city hall" There's a reason that this saying came to being...he was just a business owner that tried to do things with the city through the city for years and years and just finally snapped.
Thanks for that information Chazzy, I didn't read that he had problems last night when I was reading CNN.
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| February 16, 2008, 11:11 |
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Re: Care to bet?
He wasn't any worse than so many other kids, he didn't stand out amoung so many other troubled kids, but if a long long list of kids who might be capable of something like this, he would have made the list, maybe not the top ten but he would have made the list none-the-less.
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| February 16, 2008, 11:14 |
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Re: Care to bet?
He probably will not lose his license if he followed the law for the sale. If he did not, then he will.
I'd bet the sale was legal.
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| February 16, 2008, 11:44 |
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Mooant
41 / male
New Britain, Connecticut, US
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Re: Care to bet?
That kid might have gone there because he found out where the Virginia Tech kid got his and just followed the rules.
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| February 16, 2008, 12:33 |
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Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Mooant @ February 16, 2008, 12:33)That kid might have gone there because he found out where the Virginia Tech kid got his and just followed the rules.
What I heard from the news was that he bought his ammunition from the same website as the Virginia Tech shooter, not the guns, but the ammo...and that was the only connection between the two campus rampages.
I dunno, you can read and hear so many different things through information overload.
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| February 16, 2008, 12:51 |
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Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Hobscotch @ February 16, 2008, 11:44)He probably will not lose his license if he followed the law for the sale. If he did not, then he will.
I'd bet the sale was legal.
This place could lose their licinse anyway. I'm sure the sales were legal, however, WI has pulled the license of another gun dealer several years ago. Why? Simply because of sales as these. He would no longer be concidered a "reputable dealer"
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| February 17, 2008, 14:38 |
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Re: Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Chazzy @ February 16, 2008, 12:51) QUOTE (Mooant @ February 16, 2008, 12:33)That kid might have gone there because he found out where the Virginia Tech kid got his and just followed the rules.
What I heard from the news was that he bought his ammunition from the same website as the Virginia Tech shooter, not the guns, but the ammo...and that was the only connection between the two campus rampages.
I dunno, you can read and hear so many different things through information overload.
After i posted this, they had on tv the he bought the guns from a place in IL. Bought "accessories" from the place in Green Bay.
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| February 17, 2008, 14:40 |
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funlovingpair
59 / couple
Frozen Tundra, Minnesota, US
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Re: Care to bet?
I think its more the system in which we live in, and not a troubled life, or video games or music or movies. But our society has the need to place blame on things that have no real value. I feel its really comes down to the fact that no one takes the responsibility for their actions anymore. It's not my job, not my responsibility, you need to go see the other person, etc etc etc. It's the system. Everyone just wants to pass the buck, its not my problem. Such was the probable case of the shootings in the city offices. Government has become such a muck with red tape and I don't knows, that it takes a small army and a large bank to figure out what your suppose to do to get things done. Schools are no different. The goal of a school is to teach as many kids as possible, in a assembly line fashion. If a student does not fit, then we'll put him/her somewhere else and well who knows.
Let's all remember that its not the guns, knives, ice picks, baseball bats etc etc that are the killers, its the people. Is it time to give out some hugs and tell someone that we care.
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| February 17, 2008, 18:42 |
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Re: Care to bet?
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| February 17, 2008, 21:49 |
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Re: Care to bet?
Now his girlfriend is talking about his behavior being "strange" and she knew he quit taking his Prozac 3 weeks prior to the rampage, and how on the day of the shootings he left her with a package containing a good by note, an empty gun holster and some ammo...but she did nothing..
I dunno, how many of us would do something if we saw warning signs in a loved one? There's got to be some sort of human element in our brain function that makes us doubt our suspicions and worries, maybe a fear of overreacting, being wrong and making things worse if we speak out?
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| February 18, 2008, 07:23 |
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Re: Care to bet?
Funlovingpair has it correct!!! So, lets feed 'em more drugs instead of making them grow up and handle thier situations.
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| February 18, 2008, 22:49 |
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Re: Care to bet?
Eh...no drugs can change some...some just have jacked up brains, they're truly whacked and since they are totally inable to see things in a sane rational way, "growing up" is kinda out of the question too...they're just whacked.
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| February 22, 2008, 16:55 |
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User no longer registered.
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Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (Chazzy @ February 22, 2008, 16:55)Eh...no drugs can change some...some just have jacked up brains, they're truly whacked and since they are totally inable to see things in a sane rational way, "growing up" is kinda out of the question too...they're just whacked.
True, but until the doctors quit prescibing drugs for everything immediately, we'll never know will we?
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| February 24, 2008, 16:32 |
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Re: Re: Re: Care to bet?
QUOTE (JCSOS @ February 24, 2008, 16:32) QUOTE (Chazzy @ February 22, 2008, 16:55)Eh...no drugs can change some...some just have jacked up brains, they're truly whacked and since they are totally inable to see things in a sane rational way, "growing up" is kinda out of the question too...they're just whacked.
True, but until the doctors quit prescibing drugs for everything immediately, we'll never know will we?
Hey, a woman at work went in to the doctor for an ingrown toenail a few weeks ago and said, "Gosh, this thing has caused so much pain it was stressing me out." The doctor asked her if she would like to be put on an antidepressant to help out with the stress, she said she looked at him like he was crazy and said, "No, just fix the toe and I think I'll be fine."
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| February 24, 2008, 21:21 |
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